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Now did anyone else feel "jipped" when they announced this? I'm bored at work right now, so I figured its about time I start my rant on why this bothered me so much.

Final design? I hope not. It seemed pretty rediculous to most of the other blogs I visited during the E3 coverage when Sony unveiled it. Force feedback was ripped out (whether or not this was in regards to the lawsuit they lost, I don't know much more of the details), absolutely no tweaks to the original dualshock moldings were made, and a gimmicky motion sensoring capability was tacked on, much to the surprise of the crowd, as well as developers currently developing on the platform as well.

Now I just don't know, that put a damper on my excitement for the console. The price never bothered me, the lack of effort on Sony's part to develop and innovate did. For me, I felt like compared with the other two (Nintendo and Microsofts) next generation efforts, Sony simply opted not to deliver. What I'm getting at, the controller for Xbox 360, was designed (what they'll tell you) from the ground up. I gotta say, having played with it for quite a while now myself, I like it alot. Much as any reviewer will tell you, its practically perfect in every aspect from ergonomic design/layout, to weight (although I hate the positioning of the dashboard button, and why it wont pause the game automatically for me when its pressed I'll never know..developers are stupid, this should be pretty much default when your in the middle of gameplay). Nintendo went to the drawin board and changed the face of gaming controllers as we have come to know it. And Sony looks like they made the controller, the day before the presentation. It IS a gutted dual shock controller, with an extra button.

Where were the guys responsible for the boomeraang? Could they not have revamped dualshock's design in ANY way!? Remolded for better comfort? Anything!?! I don't know. I just feel like Sony owed us to deliver something sleak, sexy, and beautifully designed to accent the new hardware we'd be shelling out hard coin for. Are we not in agreeance? Honestly, when they whipped that sad lil thing out, I laughed at how retarded they must think I am. "Thats not a PS3 controller!" I said, "Thats just a PS2 controller!"... I don't know guys. I'm just sad about it. An oppurtunity to stimulate more interest and hype for the console backfired as the whole internet practically jumped down their throat for tacking on an utterly useless feature and ripping the vibration, as well as the high price point with the (original) unclarification of how the two sku's differ from one another with respect to how the consoles will function.

I'm just hoping they go back to the drawing board one last time, and come up with something that doesn't turn me off and make me think, wow, this is lazy..

/rant

JesusXP wrote:absolutely no tweaks to the original dualshock moldings were made

That is not true. The shoulder buttons were slightly adjusted and tweaked, and were given a longer travel. The joysticks were tweaked and modified to have a larger range of motion.

If you are going to do such a lengthy obvious bashing rant on these forums at least get your facts straight...



Whether or not the motion sensing idea was stolen from N or not, I really don't care. Looking at the details of the motion sensing for both the wii and the ps3 it's obvious that they aren't going to be used in the same way (they can't be, as the ps3's controller can only do a small subset of what the wiimote can do) and IMO the motion sensing will be a nice addition to the ps3's controller.

Personally, I really like the dualshock2 controller, and despite the rumble being removed (which is indeed quite BS) I also am very much liking the ps3 controller so far. I'm glad they didn't make any major changes to the design.

...of course the controller is about the only thing I'm liking with the ps3 so far. The price is too high, and although the tease of homebrew sounds interesting, the games shown at e3 aren't looking very good, and I'm definitely not going to buy into a console that only has crap games...

JesusXP wrote:
absolutely no tweaks to the original dualshock moldings were made

That is not true. The shoulder buttons were slightly adjusted and tweaked, and were given a longer travel. The joysticks were tweaked and modified to have a larger range of motion.

That, I was unaware about! Hopefully it works out nicely, as I have yet to read much positive in the response from E3. I feel like way to much criticism and rumors are running around about PS3's inferiority, but many without reason or basis. I'm just saying the basic design, of the Dual Shock hasn't changed which I feel like, Sony just spent little time developing the controller. To come from a new design like the boomeraang and than go back to the original, just feels like they didnt put much time and research into it. I like the DualShock as well,... but not as much as I liked Controller S for Xbox, and the new Xbox360 controller. Its just like, if they blended the DualShock & Boomeraang concept, I think they could have gotten a nice design as well, you know.

Sorry about my ignorance on the slight modifications, I may or may not have read it as well, just didn't account for it in my dissapointment with the overall unveiling.

(oh, and I don't care much that they "stole" the motion ideas from nintendo. Obviously it will be impossible for them to implement it, in much the same way Nintendo plans. I don't feel its an acceptable substitute for force feedback, and I don't feel like it changes my overall impression on the console or controller either. I didn't get excited, I mean, with the limited range of motion you have when both hands are gripped on the controller, it doesnt make much of a difference, except for a viable substitue for a racing wheel...)


And also, the games shown at E3 were not that impressive, you are right, i agree with you, but I don't know if developers have their final kits, or have had much time to utilize the full potential we've been hearing so much about. Cell arch is apparently going to be a bit of a bugger to develop on, but once coders become more comfortable with the hardware, I expect to see some pretty damn impressive stuff. One thing Sony should have at least opted to do, was pay EA to show off only the PS3 version of the next Fight Night, a slightly updated version with better visuals than the previously released 360 version, at least it could have pulled off a "Better than 360" illusion, but there was no comparible titles between the consoles, and Gears of War made everything look silly.

Anyways, a rant, is a rant... doesnt have to be the most well informed arguement, as rarily they are. Keep in mind, I'm still looking forward to owning one ;) an I'm no trying to stir up a flame war, or play fanboy, I just wanted to hear some other opinions and see if anyone shared the same...



Thanks for the response though. :)

take care

Well, if the controller looks the same, it's because they couldn't come up with something better. I'm pretty sure they tried. But part of the problem is backwards compatibility. You see with the wii you're going to get this small concept version of the old GameCube controller to be able to play those games, and right next to that the nunchuck and wiimote. Now sure that does improve flexibility, but in terms of cost it is less efficient.

As regards to the vibration function, I'm hearing most people on the 360 are turning that function off to make the battery last a little longer. Make of that what you will.

I'm not yet convinced that the wiimote is much better. It will allow for a good deal of unique things to be done, sure, but if the ps3 controller detects motion as accurately as it looked to be doing in the E3 presentation or when I saw some press guy play it on gamespot in the background during an interview, I think it's going to be absolutely great and from the looks of it, really easy to use also. Basically you just have a whole set of extra analog inputs that you can control your games and applications with, so nothing earth shakingly new to learn there, just make good use of it.

I really hope that the wired sensor bar that Nintendo opted for was worth it. It's not a very elegant solution and a gamespot journalist noticed that you had to be in a certain range - not too close, and not too high. I don't quite understand what's up with that, but I'm sure we'll find out and I'm sure it will have some advantage.

Finally, there's the thing about how long Sony has known - sure enough, the explanation about the technology maturing and becoming cost effective holds, so if the two did in fact come about in parallel, that's certainly not impossible. And the boomerang controller could have been a pretty good decoy. Even if they did come up with this at the last minute though, I hoped for it - I even posted about that, maybe it was on this forum even, when I heard about the immersion thing. I hoped that, having to drop dualshock, they'd be forced to be more innovative and get something like the wiimote going. If that's the way it went, a little less kudos to the Sony design dept, but the net result is more important to me, and that's that we have this as standard now.

In the end, the new controller is going to be important not in Sony's race against Nintendo, as the Wii isn't a direct competitor, but it may become very significant in Sony's race against Microsoft. It could turn out to be a big difference in games to have this option.

Removing the rumble feature is a low blow indeed, especially for upcoming games like MGS4 which would have used it for sure.

But what pisses me off is not the lack of rumble, it's the digital pad HORRIBLE pseudo-cross!
When will Sony realise it's a nightmare playing fighters with it :/
Diagonals? Forget it! (yes, of course you can *do* diagonals, but if you have known the Snes Pad, you know what i'm talking about)

Oh well the thing's at least Bluetooth. With a custom driver it could be possible to use it on PC.
Later,

Alcahest

this sounds like a bunch of whiney kids to me

one. the dualshock is and always will be perhaps
one of the best controllers for gaming as it has the
most range of all ...you can play almost every genre
comfortably and inact the action you seek quiet easily

two. who says the controller wasnt changed ....as drako
has put it ...it has changed its R2/L2 for more response
as i play most fighting games and those always seemed
to get stuck or not so quick to responses as the rest

three. no diagonals? ...umm the design has been like this
since ps1 pre-analog :P ...and now you notice ...frankly
i dont see your problem ...i have never had a problem
inputting a diagonal direction ....ever ...maybe your fingers
might be too small still ...and if youve played enough
button mashers like street fighter then you should know that
diagonals are key for that game ....and i dont have a problem
so why do you? ...i do agree snes pad will always be the best
to me for fighters right next to neo geo arcade pad but your
crying over the dpad seems kinda late to me

four: the wiimote is light years ahead of the ps3 motion sensing
why? ...cuz nintendo intended it to be used for motion right from
the beginning ...sony just tacked the 6 way motion just to
show that nintendo the controller isnt that important but in fact
its very important ....i attended E3 this year and out of all the gaming
going on there the sony booth did not impress aside from god of war 2,
motorstorm, and heavenly sword ....the games looked great but
they still _felt_ like ps2 gaming ....so which game brought the most fun
to me out of all the craziness of E3 ....Wii sports :P ....i actually had
an incredable time playing tennis and baseball .....really brought me
back to that good ol' feeling as super famicom did when it first hit

five. the rumble feature the rumble feature the rumble feature
to me its very apparent that sony neglected the rumble feature
in light of the whole immersion lawsuit ....rumble is very highly
great for immersing one in a game 8) ...sux its removed frankly
but thats how life is i guess ....and as for battery life complaints
my x360 can go the whole day of multi madden gaming with
friends long into the wii-hours :) ....and i do not put to recharge
until i wake up so that much says enough about battery life and
rumble taking a chuck of it

six. finally. you cannot simply compare the remotes they are both
in a league of their own ...sonys being a great multiuse all purpose
controller that will always stay classic in its design ...and frankly i and
others have grown so used to the dualshock that a change would be
quiet drastic and if sony were to fail in design change would equal
an immense boost for the big N ....the ps3 has motion sensing inside
as the wiimote has an external sensor which might seem more of a
hassle to most ...to me this lends it to have incredible diversity for a
variety of games which would make it quiet comfortable but their is a con
and that is that during E3 playing games like Zelda the wiimote had to
remain in a certain _box_ range meaning youd have to keep your hands
up which after some gaming lends to give your forearms a workout
that i didnt like as sometimes i just wanna game and dont wanna move
and also the wiimote can never be used for fighting game purposes like
street fighter which i will never see myself playing on the wii

so what is the conclusion ? how can a middle ground be formed ?

easy !! the big N also has to me what seems to be the absolute best
controller design ever ...and yet they dont even know it ....whats this design

the Wii Controller Classic :) ....if it had its own motion capabilities i think
it woul definately be the controller my hands will be most holding on to
these coming next gen years ...feels just like the great snes pad and
has great solid feel ..the clear buttons feeling to me a little to thin but ok
and i could easily see myself fighting some heated battles in street fighter
on it any day :)

You prolly won't care, but i didn't start hating the Ps pad diagonals with the PS3 controller. I've hated it since day one on old Playstation.
It's not that my fingers are small. It's just that after 3 or 4 year on SFC it felt really bad and still does.
I was hoping they would correct it with the new PS3 controller but they didn't. Oh well.
However I agree that the new wii standard pad looks awesome and hope there will be some converter to use it on PS3.



At the moment i'm using the latest Hori Wireless Anashin which is pretty much perfect for me.

The only small rant i have is that the analog sensitive buttons are a *bit* too sensitive compared to the DualShock2. (releasing the gun without shooting is pretty hard in MGS2).

Later,

Alcahest

Arwin wrote:But part of the problem is backwards compatibility. You see with the wii you're going to get this small concept version of the old GameCube controller to be able to play those games, and right next to that the nunchuck and wiimote. Now sure that does improve flexibility, but in terms of cost it is less efficient.

While I'm sure your talking about the classic controller (which IMO is NOT a "small concept version of the old GameCube"), as far as backwards compatability you should realize that the wii can use gamecube controllers (probably not for wii games, but for gamecube games at least, and probably virtual console as well)

how can it be dual shock if it hasnt got the shock?

this sounds like a bunch of whiney kids to me

dot_blank, no clue why you are accusing us of being whiney kids, for voicing our opinion.. your opinion differs, acceptable, but you don't need to be a douchebag because some of ours may not be the same. Just because you didn't find the D-pad to be an inconvience, doesn't mean noone else did. I forgot god specially crafted your hands to be the model in which to base all controller design. Just wanted to let you know it comes across sorta ignorant. The reports I have read (and yes, unlike you I was not in attendance at E3), stated the response for the motion sensoring was a little sluggish, and yet sensitive (if that makes sense), having not been fortunate enough to see for myself, I can only go on what I have read, so I'm glad that you can report some positive notes in that respect. The DualShock Design, people are not understanding I guess that a button Layout, doesnt make the controller design. I like the Layout of the DualShock, but it still doesnt fit perfect im my hand, and When I switched from Genesis to PS1, I remember my hand cramping so badly I couldnt only tolerate up to an hour of gaming at a time with the p.o.s... The DualShock design, could have been modified, outside the button response that they did fix (thankfully), and they could have made the mold a more form fitting to your hands. Easily this can be done, and my opinion was that it showed a lack of effort on sony's part in designing the controller. its QUITE possible, that the new functionality, and "new" controller were thrown together reletively last minute and they had no otehr choice to but to add the functionality and tweak the controller oh so slightly, but having a year since last E3, and to come out with the same design they had a year before, just tells me that this was an area they may not have focussed on. Maybe its because they are battling hardcore with Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD, maybe its because they were busy with the lawsuit, maybe it was because getting their actual Hardware finalized is proving to be a pain, I couldnt tell you why, but it just feels like they were too occupied to show much attention to this area. Need I point you to the direction of several sites which show Previous E3 PS3 Specs to the new ones released this year? Sony Promised and underdelivered. I am still excited, still anxious, just still mad. :P

BTW, I thought Every PS had sold for around $700 when it launched anyways? The price never bothered me, like I said before. I don't know, I wouldn't even be surprised if this was a trick, and they are actually going to launch with the console price dropped to meet Xbox. Although unlikely, we have read reports that Nintendo held off final pricing till it knew what Sony was doing, they are prepared to sell at $250US ~$300CAN, and the PS3 at $499US would look mighty nice... and steal more market share from Microsoft and Nintendo.

(and this is a side note)
Either way, anyone who believes that Sony has "screwed" themselves this generation, is sorely mistaken. The brand is going to carry Sony through this generation.

This thread is going nowhere, and is really quite irritating.

If you don't like the controller then don't buy it, this forum isn't a Sony consumer feedback line.