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I am not a programmer. I just stumbled upon this website some how. I'm just wondering if any of you guys are into sim style sports game. A lot of the sports games today have many bugs in them. The best sports game in terms of gameplay would be either High Heat 2004 (baseball) or Winning 11 7 (soccer).

I always wonder how bugs in a game get by the beta testers. It's really fustrating to see things like that happen. I guess programming code is very time consuming and fustrating. From what I hear the PS2 is the most difficult with the current consoles to date.

It's my dream to start a new sports software company to compete with the likes of Sega and the king we know as EA! I think EA and Sega can be threatened if some one comes up with sports games that are properly poslihed before release. By checking many forums, it's the biggest complaint sports gamers have, poor polishing of games!!!

Any other sports gamers or developers on this board?

gsr888 wrote:I guess programming code is very time consuming and fustrating.

Oh my.

mharris wrote:

gsr888 wrote:I guess programming code is very time consuming and fustrating.

Oh my.

Remember, he isn't a programmer...

OK, here's a more helpful reply, maybe. Caveat: I'm not a professional game programmer, I'm just a regular old programmer...

It seems to me that probably the hardest type of genre would be a sports game: Because of the very nature of what's happening, the physics would get very complicated (compared to, say, a space sim, a driving game, an FPS, etc.)

Dealing with human figures is tricky to do well. There are many (very expensive) commercial products out there to model, animate, etc. human figures for sports games, FPS, and so on. The fact that these packages exist indicates how difficult it is to do well.

Making it interesting and fun to play is a whole other issue as well.

And finally, most of the popular sports titles (in the US at least) have a great deal of "real players" in them -- actual players from the NFL/MLB/NBA/whatever. Their stats, and in some cases, even their likenesses. Not only would this be hugely complicated, but there are a lot of licensing and other legal issues to deal with. You can't even use an Orioles logo on a AI w/out consent from MLB, for example.

I've mentioned this before in other threads, but programming is only one aspect of a game -- maybe not even the biggest. If you look at any real game development companies out there, not only do they have developers, but they have at least as many 2D and 3D artists; depending on the game, there are usually some variant of "mission designers," who are writing the scripts. Then there's audio: you need a soundtrack, incidental sounds (ball hitting bat, crowd cheering, goalkeeper grunting, whistles blowing, etc.) You may also need voice actors, if there's any dialogue or commentary.

Then there's the completely unrelated stuff: if this is a commercial undertaking (i.e., you have workers you want to pay), then you're going to need HR and accounting departments. In order to sell it, you'd better have a marketing department, maybe even some channel sales reps, and someone cutting deals with a publisher or distributer. By the way, marketing will steal your artists when you need them the most to put together the artwork for the pre-release ads...

I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a HUGE undertaking to make a game -- even an awful game. Making one "better than EA" is an admirable goal, but is probably not too realistic. BTW, any EA title probably had a staff of at least 20 people, working 50+ hours per week for two years... take a look at the credits sometime (no one ever does).

And the 2 reasons bugs get past playtesters:
1. nobody encountered them during testing.
2. there wasn't enough time to fix all of them without adding another 6 months to the release date.

As I said before, it's only a dream of mine to take out EA. Good post by the way. There is a lot legalties that go into making a sports game.

Are any of you familar with the code for other consoles (gamecube, xbox)?

Very nice reply mharris.

I've been working for a game development company for just a couple of months, and it is indeed a challenge. The part mharris said about bugs is definitely true, talking with the developers who work here now, what mharris said are the exact reasons they gave for the bugs in their last title. The game I'm doing now is expected soon, but with all the features that keep getting piled on I'm sure it will take a few months past the deadline. Once that happens that means long days (I typically work from 8:30am/9am - 6pm anyway) and coming in on weekends.

I know for myself, I always strive to not let bugs creep in my code. No developer wants bugs, but unfortnately it happens. Also the more complex the code is the greater chance there will be bugs. Add the pressure of getting the title out the door on time and other factors such as adding/removing features, consulting with your publisher for assets (game data) and it can become a nightmare.

While IMO, I have the greatest job in the world, it's a tough one, and it'll definitely be worth it once I see the game I'm working on now ship to the stores. Oh BTW, we are a small company, and the CEO works closely with us (doubling up as a designer, etc.). He works harder than any of us, as not only does he have to worry about keeping us in business, but also keep track of where we are on the titles we're working on. I would _not_ like to have his job :). Keep in mind that if you start your own venture, you are in for one heck of a ride.

Oh, and as far as taking out EA, they are one of our publishers, so please don't take them out :P.

Who do you work for mrbrown anyway? Or are do you not want to say at the moment?

I work for Budcat Creations located in Las Vegas, NV.

www.budcat.com