ps2sdk libpad and .IRX

Tramboi · Post by **Tramboi** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:53 pm

Hello everybody,

first, let's say I'm a professionnal PS2 programmer with Sony Kit and Toolchain available at work who's wanting to use the free and legal ps2sdk to release PS2 code on the web :)

So I'm trying to replace all the sceXXXX calls by XXXX in my code.
And I have trouble with pad initialization.
No padman.irx (and sio2man.irx) seems to go with ps2sdk distribution? Do I have to use one from Sony? Is it legal? Is there a free replacement?
I tried with an Sony padman.irx, and padInit just got stuck, where scePadInit went smoothly?
BTW, it doesn't work either with rom0:SIO2MAN/PADMAN
BTW2, I'm using CodeWarrior, not GCC, for now... and I'm on a devkit, not a chipped PS2, which has different ROM.
Does somebody have an idea?

My guess is that the lib is reversed from an old PS2 ROM and that I need exactly the good IRX versions that match. But which one?

Thanks in advance,
Tramb

Post by **blackdroid** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:01 pm

in the rpc/pad/samples dir you can see that
rom0:SIO2MAN
rom0:PADMAN
or ( the X counterparts )

are loaded in order for libpad to work, now this do work on a stock machine ( old or new ). I dont know if sony ever changed the versions of SIO2MAN and PADMAN between revisions of the ps, so maybe we are all indeed loading "old" irx's.

Tramboi · Post by **Tramboi** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:17 pm

blackdroid wrote:in the rpc/pad/samples dir you can see that
rom0:SIO2MAN
rom0:PADMAN
or ( the X counterparts )

are loaded in order for libpad to work, now this do work on a stock machine ( old or new ). I dont know if sony ever changed the versions of SIO2MAN and PADMAN between revisions of the ps, so maybe we are all indeed loading "old" irx's.

I guess so...
So it leaves the problem of somebody telling me where I can find those .IRX that match the lib in file format.
It worries me a bit because it seems it implies ps2dev was reversed from the ROM instead of the IOPRPxxx.IMG files that are loaded by games at the beginning to update the IOP.
And I don't know which ROM is in retail PS2 (you don't care when you develop a game, because you upload everything at the beginning), but Sony's runtime libs are version 3.0.2 now and I guess the PS2 is at least before 2.4...
So the libs and ROM irx might be quite buggy :-(

Tramboi · Post by **Tramboi** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:43 am

PS:
MMmhh I traced into the offending padInit, and it seems the problem is with RPC binding...
padInit is stuck in a loop trying to SifRpcBind...

So, to sum up

sceSifInitRpc / scePadInit : OK
SifInitRpc / scePadInit : NOT OK
SifInitRpc / padInit : NOT OK

with 2.7 IRX

Can somebody help me? :)

Post by **TyRaNiD** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:27 am

Yah don't use the 2.7 IRX, don't use a tool kit etc. PS2SDK/PS2LIB etc. are reversed from the rom0 libraries not the newer revisions of the sdk. The reason for this is that it is illegal to redistribute the newer .img files where as everyone has the rom.

In some cases (such as libsd) we have re-implemented it to get it running on old .jp ps2s which do not have it in rom. However stuff like padman and sio2man are about as standard as they get and re-implementing them for redistribution is extremely low on the priority list for ps2dev.

While it is possible that the rom versions may indeed be buggy they are rarely _that_ buggy that they do not work, for the most part once the first .us units came out the roms were pretty standard, we generally only need tweaks to support 10k/15k/18k jap machines.

The fact that if you are indeed a real developer there is possible legal implications to doing publically available ps2dev work is probably irrelevant ;)

Tramboi · Post by **Tramboi** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:58 am

TyRaNiD wrote:Yah don't use the 2.7 IRX, don't use a tool kit etc. PS2SDK/PS2LIB etc. are reversed from the rom0 libraries not the newer revisions of the sdk. The reason for this is that it is illegal to redistribute the newer .img files where as everyone has the rom.

Yeah but the goal is just to develop easily the program using the devkit and debugger, then turn the code into a legal ps2sdk source that doesn't depend on copyrighted stuff, and then release it.
For instance, I could load a host0://IRX/PADMAN.IRX on the devkit then turn it into rom0:PADMAN for releasing it.
The only problem is I need to know what IMG and IRX versions I need to be equivalent to a retail PS2, if I want to work on the devkit.
If I can't, I can still succeed but it will be more tedious to test and debug.

TyRaNiD wrote: The fact that if you are indeed a real developer there is possible legal implications to doing publically available ps2dev work is probably irrelevant ;)

Do you think so? I don't think SCEA/E/I cares provided I don't release any NDA stuff.
But I'd like to know for sure, if you have info on this issue :)

Post by **TyRaNiD** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:41 am

The only problem is I need to know what IMG and IRX versions I need to be equivalent to a retail PS2, if I want to work on the devkit.
If I can't, I can still succeed but it will be more tedious to test and debug.

If you have a tool kit then I guess you might be able to grab a rom from a consumer ps2 and flash it with that, though don't know much about that to be honest.

Do you think so? I don't think SCEA/E/I cares provided I don't release any NDA stuff.
But I'd like to know for sure, if you have info on this issue :)

Note: I am not a lawyer, I haven't seen Sony's NDA or know directly what the terms of it states you can or cannot do, however I would take the view that any knowledge of the system is under the NDA not just libs or example source.

Now this is more of a grey area considering the docs in the PS2Linux kit, however if your first experience is with the commercial system I am not sure that could be used as a defence. There is also the question of pollution. While you may not believe you are copying code from an NDAed source you might be, if you are employed by a games company they may want to know about you doing this kinda of thing as they might worry about you leaking their source code.

AFAIK most people in homebrew ps2dev haven't touched the official kit (at least officially ;P) the ones which have tend to stop developing pretty quickly afterwards so....

zaphod · Post by **zaphod** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:12 am

Basically, because you've seen the oficial kit you can't PROVE you aren't using your official knowledge in your coding. That's the main problem. YOur hands are unclean, as it were. If you screen everything yo udo thru SOny and get permission, then yo ucan release, otherwise you're stuck, i'd say.

IANAL, of course.

J.F. · Post by **J.F.** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:08 am

Or you could release the code through a third party and let them take credit for your work.

You'll notice that very few people here use their real name. It's not that there's anything illegal going on, but people these days are paranoid on gray area projects like this. The UK high court just made mod-chips illegal yesterday, and in the US there is the DMCA, so if people seem a little reluctant to toot their own horns, I can understand completely.

Post by **mrbrown** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:06 am

People around here don't use their real names because they are from the demo era and those are their nicks or handles. Everyone else uses handles because everyone uses handles online.

Is there anyone on this site really that paranoid? I hope they're using a proxy because their IP is logged :).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:42 pm

Also, keep in mind that many companies, at least in the United States,
have you sign an agreement that gives the company ownership over
any code that you write. In practice, especially small free softwares,
most companies really couldn't care and don't enforce it most of the
time.

However, if you are using a company provided & owned DEV TOOL in
order to write this software, and you are doing it without the blessing
of your management, it creates a bit more of a risky situation with
respect to how you are using company time and resources, ownership
of code aside (and the company will have stronger claim to anything
you write).

Your best bet might be to develop on the side using solely the
homebrew kits to make the software you want. Then, if you want to
incorporate it back into your work, there may be less difficulties, as
you are justified in using company resources when you need to
incorporate homebrew stuff thats already been developed.

But I am not a lawyer, and I haven't addressed the issue of whether
you should or should not do anything at all. As you can tell, its quite
a gray area.

For the record, I am neither a professional developer nor do I work
for one, and I am not a lawyer either, so take this as personal opinion
and not legal advice.

Gorim

J.F. · Post by **J.F.** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:19 am

Gorim makes a good point. The first company I worked for owned everything I wrote, even at home on my own PC on my own time. I made sure the next job didn't have that. Check your contract's fine print.