PC Video Card

[dagamer34]

I have never done any real PS2 development simply because my PS2 isn't close enough to the computer I use (it isn't mine). But I will soon be getting one, and I am wondering if any of you know of a graphics card that can receive composite audio/video input of some sort to be displayed on my PC.

I have been looking at the ATI All-In-Wonder series and all they have is the RF jack for standard input. I would rather not use a RF modulator for input as I will loose some quality. Do any of you have video cards that you use/recommend for the task? If I can find one, then it would be really easy to do something worthwhile on my PS2.

Thanks.

[Drakonite]

You don't have to buy a new gfx card, you can just buy a tv tuner card. If you check pricewatch you can find dirt cheap tuner cards (under $30) that would work good enough, but be warned that tv tuner cards aren't great for games ;)

[Guest]

I have never done any real PS2 development simply because my PS2 isn't close enough to the computer I use (it isn't mine). But I will soon be getting one, and I am wondering if any of you know of a graphics card that can receive composite audio/video input of some sort to be displayed on my PC.

Thanks.

Well, you have many options.

First, it sounds like you you want to use your computer monitor. You are
asking to receive the video from the PS2 to your PC in order to display
on your computer monitor. Thats one way to do it. Probably any ATI
card that receives A/V inputs can do it. Another way is if you have any
reasonably new digital camcorder that takes A/V input and outputs DV
down firewire. I hooked up my Sony the other day to do that (for carrying
my laptop and PS2 around without also lugging a separate monitor). But
an ATI card may be cheaper than a digital camcorder. Drakonite
suggested a TV tuner (I assume he meant one hooked up externally
to a PC) that will work great too. Pick what works for you.

Another alternative is to hook it up to your TV and forget about the
computer monitor.

There are also signal transcoders that will convert your PS2 composite
or s-video or component signals into VGA. There are a variety in price
ranges and quality, from around $30 all the way up to $220 that are
oriented towards consumers and not professionals. This route, you will
not be going through your computer, so you might need a VGA switch
box also, or just move cables around.

So far then, there are three ways to get video from your PS2 displayed:

1. Hook it up directly to a TV or standard A/V component for display onto a tv. Some newer computer monitors also have basic A/V inputs.
2. Feed the signal into your compute via internal or external video capture device (i.e. ati card or some external box). This usually requires some
software to run on the pc, above and beyond the OS.
3. Convert the signal directly to VGA via some external transcoder box, going straight to the computer monitor and bypassing the computer.

Pick your poison, all except the first cost money, unless of course you don't meet the minimum requirements for #1.

Gorim

[Drakonite]

Drakonite suggested a TV tuner (I assume he meant one hooked up externally to a PC) that will work great too. Pick what works for you.

Actually, that wasn't specifically what I was talking about, but it qualifies. TV Tuners used to be standalone PCI cards (and are still available in that nature). The GFX card/TV Tuner combination cards such as the ATI All-in-Wonder are a relatively new phenomenon. The external USB TV Tuners are also a relatively new thing as well.

All of them are basically the same thing, just a slightly different way of doing it each with their own pros and cons.

Personally I only have an old WinTV PCI TV Tuner card, but it works pretty good (games look horrible though... that could just be that my computer is slow enough I can't handle deinterlacing though)

[dagamer34]

Drakonite suggested a TV tuner (I assume he meant one hooked up externally to a PC) that will work great too. Pick what works for you.

Actually, that wasn't specifically what I was talking about, but it qualifies. TV Tuners used to be standalone PCI cards (and are still available in that nature). The GFX card/TV Tuner combination cards such as the ATI All-in-Wonder are a relatively new phenomenon. The external USB TV Tuners are also a relatively new thing as well.

All of them are basically the same thing, just a slightly different way of doing it each with their own pros and cons.

Personally I only have an old WinTV PCI TV Tuner card, but it works pretty good (games look horrible though... that could just be that my computer is slow enough I can't handle deinterlacing though)

How bad does the picture look? I'm planning on getting a 3.0Ghz P4 w/HT on a ATi Radeon 9200 All-In-Wonder Pro(hopefully). I want to use my comp screen because I'm short on space on my desk.

I know there are external RF modulators (I found one at Wal-mart for 10 bucks) but don't really want to go that route unless I have to. Some picture quality is lost, I'm not sure how much though. I don't see any GFX cards with A/V in ports, so if you see some, please tell me.

[Guest]

I want to use my comp screen because I'm short on space on my desk.

I know there are external RF modulators (I found one at Wal-mart for 10 bucks) but don't really want to go that route unless I have to. Some picture quality is lost, I'm not sure how much though. I don't see any GFX cards with A/V in ports, so if you see some, please tell me.

Well, no one has mentioned external RF modulators yet...I don't think
anyone would unless they were hard up. So far we have mentioned
solutions that involve A/V inputs or RGB transcoders.

So, now we understand that you want to save space.
I am surprised the ATI all-in-wonders don't have A/V inputs. Are
you sure about that ?

Look at www.lik-sang.com for A/V to RGB transcoders. There are
3 or 4 of them are various price points, see if there is one that fits
your bill. No, I have no relation to that web site, but it has tons of
cool stuff.

Drakonites suggestion is still good too. There are plenty of methods
out there, you just gotta get up, go to the store, or surf the web, to
find that one for you.

Gorim

[dagamer34]

I want to use my comp screen because I'm short on space on my desk.

I know there are external RF modulators (I found one at Wal-mart for 10 bucks) but don't really want to go that route unless I have to. Some picture quality is lost, I'm not sure how much though. I don't see any GFX cards with A/V in ports, so if you see some, please tell me.

Well, no one has mentioned external RF modulators yet...I don't think
anyone would unless they were hard up. So far we have mentioned
solutions that involve A/V inputs or RGB transcoders.

So, now we understand that you want to save space.
I am surprised the ATI all-in-wonders don't have A/V inputs. Are
you sure about that ?

Look at www.lik-sang.com for A/V to RGB transcoders. There are
3 or 4 of them are various price points, see if there is one that fits
your bill. No, I have no relation to that web site, but it has tons of
cool stuff.

Drakonites suggestion is still good too. There are plenty of methods
out there, you just gotta get up, go to the store, or surf the web, to
find that one for you.

Gorim

http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9200/ ... llery.html :Unless I'm missing something, they're not there. The thing is, that I found a computer with the same exact video card and it has those A/V ports (though it's on the front). I didn't get a chance to see the specs of the system (no mouse) but I'll check it out. Thanks a lot for all your help.

[J.F.]

I have an ATI All-In-Wonder and yes, it does have composite and S-Video in. It has a special plug that connects to a special cable that has a big block on the end. The block has the audio in, composite in, and s-video in. You need that cable to avoid using the RF in. The s-video input works great with the PS2. ATI's have always had really good video components, both on input and output.

[Guest]

http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9200/ ... llery.html :Unless I'm missing something, they're not there. The thing is, that I found a computer with the same exact video card and it has those A/V ports (though it's on the front). I didn't get a chance to see the specs of the system (no mouse) but I'll check it out. Thanks a lot for all your help.

It might be helpful during the investigation of a potential item of computer
hardware to read the specifications that accompany a picture:

Connectors

* Stereo audio, S-video, and composite video inputs and outputs
* External stereo connections to sound card’s line input and output
* Dolby® digital stereo audio output (S/PDIF)

As confirmed by someone else who actually has the card, it should meet
your needs. ATI's do have a good reputation, but I do wish they would
release All-in-wonder's with Mac drivers. :)

Good luck with your endeavors!

Gorim
[/b]

[dagamer34]

I have an ATI All-In-Wonder and yes, it does have composite and S-Video in. It has a special plug that connects to a special cable that has a big block on the end. The block has the audio in, composite in, and s-video in. You need that cable to avoid using the RF in. The s-video input works great with the PS2. ATI's have always had really good video components, both on input and output.

If you could give me a link to where I could purchase that, you would really make my day. :D

[J.F.]

Mine came with the card, but if you got cheap and bought an All-in-Wonder without the cable, here's a link to a third-party compatible cable.

http://www.trianglecables.com/atiallinwona.html

If you just google around, you can find places selling All-in-Wonder cables.

[dagamer34]

Did you buy your card off the shelf in a package, or did it come with the computer you have?

[J.F.]

Off the shelf in a package. When buying cards and you want VIVO, make SURE the package you buy has all the needed cables. Dealers will often sell packages without cables at a cheaper price for people who don't want/need them, so if you just look at the price, you might wind up without necessary cables.

[dagamer34]

I know it's a bit late to ask this question, but do you get any delay on the screen from using the card? I've been roaming around the Internet, mostly at the some forums, and I read some things like how the TV tuner causes a 2-3 second delay of picture because of the hardware decoding!

I just wanted to make sure before I go pick up the card, I finally got enough cash to get it! :D

[Drakonite]

My cheap wintv card has no noticable delay. I have a b&w tv sitting next to my desk and the picture on the TV and the output of the tuner card look perfectly sync'd.

[dagamer34]

My cheap wintv card has no noticable delay. I have a b&w tv sitting next to my desk and the picture on the TV and the output of the tuner card look perfectly sync'd.

Well, I plan on buying an Media Center Edition PC and some people have said that the TV Tuner creates some noticable delay. Maybe its because of MCE's DVR function...

[zaphod]

The moa\ain problem with those cards is that you wil see horrible combing artifacts when playing games, and there's no real way around it if the game runs at faster than 30 fps (which many do)

[Guest]

Yes, depending on the method you use, there can be as much as a 1-2
second delay.

You will see this most with external devices. This is because these devices
perform many A/D, D/A, and video trancoding/compression/decompression
steps along the way before the video gets to your screen.

You will have the best luck with devices designed to take video input
and throw it onto your screen with the minimum of such steps inbetween.

Cards that plug into the PCI/AGP busses would be best, even better if
it is a combo video-card that might avoid host cpu processing.

An example of what DOESN'T work well:
I have used a Sony digital camcorder to convert the A/V from my PS2
and get it thrown onto my computer screen. The paths the signal takes
are as follows:

• 1. PS2->Camcorder A/V input : A/D conversion (likely real time)
  2. Camcorder internal digital to DV : Transcoding (almost real time DSP probably)
  3. Camcorder DV -> output to firewire port : encapsulation into 1394 protocol and then D/A conversion for RF transmission on 1394 cable
  4. 1394 cable -> Computer firewire port : A/D of RF signal into 1394 protocol data
  5. Computer OS 1394 device driver : unencapsulate the DV data from the 1394 stream and send to the software application
  6. software application : decode DV data into whatever format that will be passed to the video graphics adapter for display
  7. Video graphics device driver and then hardware doing its thing.

I may have missed a few steps, but they all add up.

Using an internal card can cut out MANY of those steps.
Avoiding as much host-cpu software processing as possible will also
greatly help. Problem is, its often cheaper to offload such processing
to software than to add more hardware, so YMMV with whatever
solution you buy.

Fortunately, I was looking simply to use my laptop screen as a monitor
to debug bootup problems should they occur until i got to a ps2link screen
or to a PS2linux login where i could then access via the network. Gaming
is definitely not useful here.

Gorim

[dagamer34]

I think the ATi All-In-Wonder 9200 does processing in hardware, and it does use the AGP port, so I think I'll be okay.